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The place of knowledge in the transformation of man and society - Volume 2 (MP3 disc) Two Volumes

The place of knowledge in the transformation of man and society - Volume 2 (MP3 disc) Two Volumes

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Brockwood Park 1974 - Scientists Seminars - The place of knowledge in the transformation of man and society 

The participants are J. Krishnamurti, David Bohm, David Butt, Fritjof Capra, Elizabeth Ferris, Gordan Globus, Mrs Globus, Bryan Goodwin, Basil Hiley, Julian Melzack, Robin Monro, David Peat, Karl Pribram, David Shainberg, George Sudarshan, Harsh Tanka and Montague Ullma.


7. The brain, meditation, compassion in science - 17 October 1974

Duration: 132 minutes

K: Is the brain ever still?

K: In meditation all wounds are healed; all movement of the self has come to an end.

K: I say, ‘I’m arrogant.’ I’m aware of it. Why do I call it arrogance?

K: What is effort?

K: Is it possible for a human being not to be violent?

Short talk given by Maurice Wilkins (Physicist and Biologist).

Maurice Wilkins: The scientific community as a whole is somehow trapped, mesmerised in the world of thought.

MW: Are we aware of the extent to which we are conditioned by our social organisation?

Julian Melzack: Should Einstein have been worried about the bomb?

DB: The word ‘compassion’ means com-passion, to feel together and all together. If scientists don’t feel all together, their work has no meaning.

K: Are scientists concerned with war as compassionate human beings?

K: Is transformation a matter of time, evolution, a gradual process, or is it something immediate?

George Sudarshan: How can we talk about a peaceful, harmonious world when there is such strong iniquity with regard to distribution?


8. Alternative medicine and holism - 17 October 1974

Duration: 72 minutes

Introductory talk given by Elizabeth Ferris (Medical Doctor).

Elizabeth Ferris: What is alternative medicine?

EF: The notion of health and disease perpetrated by germ theory became an essential part of the background of treatment and cure, so the system perpetrated itself.

EF: How can we be compassionate to a part of a person?

EF: If health is wholeness then can we say that disease is in some way non-wholeness?

David Bohm: We can’t understand the whole without bringing in feeling as well as the intellect. It requires the whole of a person to understand the whole.

David Peat: Looking at the whole person and taking the view that the disease and the person are one, where exactly do you draw the whole?

David Shainberg: If we understand what we mean by holism, we will move to a different perspective, a deeper ground, not in terms of action and reaction.


9. The immeasurable, non-verbal communication, love, Krishnamurti’s youth - 18 October 1974

Duration: 127 minutes

Introductory talk given by David Bohm (Physicist).

David Bohm: In order for anybody to do anything new there must be love or passion, which cannot be separated from compassion.

DB: There is a distinction between East and West about attitude to measurement.

K: To communicate non-verbally means we must both be interested in the same thing at the same time and at the same level.

K: The immeasurable is negating what it is not.

K: I tell you that I love you. How do you listen to it?

K: Non-verbal communication becomes a theory, a verbal description, but to be actually in that state of non-verbal listening requires great attention.

Autobiographical talk given by Krishnamurti.

K: Thought has created this awful mess in the world; apart from goodness, it has brought about division between people and nations.

K: There must be an understanding of death, love and daily living, as a unitary movement.


10. The masters, Krishnamurti, meditation and silence - 18 October 1974

Duration: 111 minutes

Introductory talk given by Krishnamurti.

K: In the Indian and Tibetan tradition there are beings who do not appear in the world but live apart and help mankind.

K: When Dr Besant said, ‘The World Teacher has manifested,’ she staked her reputation on that.

K: Oneself is the teacher and the disciple if you are willing to listen.

Fritjof Capra: Have you yourself changed over the years?

Gordon Globus: How did you come to understand the nature of violence, not experiencing it yourself?

K: Any religious organisation based on belief and authority is detrimental to the understanding of truth.

Julian Melzack: Do you think you have any prejudices which you bring when discussing with other people?

K: You must be free from your framework to find out what another person says about meditation.

K: A silence induced through discipline, control, drugs, repetition of words is not silence.

JM: Is it possible to say that I’ve understood what you are saying without having experienced it?

K: Find out what meditation means.


11.  Meditation, death, the mind when the self is not - 19 October 1974

Duration: 129 minutes

K: Unless we understand extrasensory perception, healing and thought over matter, we won’t get the whole picture of meditation.

K: A real yogi never drinks, never eats meat and leads a very strict life; it’s not just an amusing healthy thing.

K: What is it to die?

K: The observer is the central factor of distortion, contradiction, division, from which arises conflict and effort.

K: The ‘me’ has no reality except verbally, which is very difficult to accept because we are attached.

K: Can I look at suffering without the observer saying, ‘I must do something about it’?

K: Thought implies the brain, but thought is also outside and leaves a form.

K: We are attached and our thoughts, in the form of attachment, go on.

K: What happens to a mind when the self is not? The self is continuity, as name, form, a book, one’s furniture.

K: When I drop my burdens I may have an abundance of love, then I’ll act.

What is the quality of the awareness that I am chattering?


12. Cooperation and action not based on ideals 19 October 1974

Duration: 96 minutes

K: The self, a series of words, a structure of ideas, prejudices, conclusions, attachments, ambition, greed, arrogance, hurts, can be ended by being free now.

K: Is there is an action which is not based on an ideal or concept?

K: How do we cooperate in solving a problem?

K: How can students understand the observer and the observed? Instead, I say let’s talk about cooperation and see if you can cooperate with affection, care and attention.

Fritjof Capra: This seems to imply your presence at the same point, at the same time and with the same frame of mind.

David Bohm: The deeper question is whether we have this causeless feeling which creates a common action.

K: Is there an action without a formula? This may be the solution to our problems. Find out; don’t oppose it.

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